What We Wish We'd Known as New Injectors

0:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, I'm Kim Peters and this is the Alumine podcast today. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be talking about what it's like to become an injector. [SPEAKER_02]: Today I have with me Jessica Sipriano from Oklahoma City. [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for having me. [SPEAKER_02]: And Katie Moran from San Diego. [UNKNOWN]: Hi. [SPEAKER_02]: So we are all owners of our practices, and we are injectors collectively. [SPEAKER_02]: We decided we have what like 26 years. [SPEAKER_02]: I think we have experienced. [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to start with, I think probably the most common question I get from people who are, you know, nurses who are looking to get into the space of being an injector, which is a very desirable position to be is, where do I get started, how do I get started?

0:41 [SPEAKER_02]: So I just kind of wanted to start with, maybe you guys telling me a little bit about, let's start with you Jessica. [SPEAKER_01]: your story of how you became an injector and what you did before that for sure so I started out in labor and delivery as a hospital nurse like most of us did and I loved working with women I love taking care of patients but obviously the hospital is [SPEAKER_01]: Not the best culture. [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to want to move up in that culture because you start to be exposed to the toxicity. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not really about the patient. [SPEAKER_01]: It's about the profit and that became discouraging. [SPEAKER_01]: So I always knew I loved anatomy and I started researching positions that used a lot of anatomy [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

1:29 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. [SPEAKER_01]: And aesthetics. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I actually investigated was working with the me and option for an RN and in the state of Oklahoma, it's not you have to they do text or physicians. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was out. [SPEAKER_01]: So I decided I would go take a training course and do a aesthetics. [SPEAKER_02]: So tell me about your training course. [SPEAKER_02]: What was that like your first training course? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was very expensive, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So to go loan, to do it, and it was $8,000 just for a two day injectable course, I get down there, I'm really excited, and then there's 20 other people.

2:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, they're making a lot of money right now, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So we sit there and we're in a classroom and the majority of the time they breeze through some slides and then we go hands on and you're in a room with five other people. [SPEAKER_01]: one model and you're sharing the face. [SPEAKER_01]: So I had injected half of an upper forehead and like the lower portion of one side of the crow's feet and then I did a quarter of a lip. [SPEAKER_01]: And there you go. [SPEAKER_02]: So what did you do with that afterwards like how did what was the next step into where you're at now?

2:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I had created my resume said that I'm you know certified. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trained to do these things and I go around start applying places and they're basically like yeah that means nothing to me we're looking for someone with experience and I'm like how do I get experience so he has to hire me right and so oftentimes [SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't you have it received proper training? [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have a mentor or anyone trying to help you find a job to tell you what other things you can do. [SPEAKER_01]: You put your foot in the door at the first place that'll take you and those tend to be the less than ethical establishments. [SPEAKER_01]: So I started off in a medswell that seemed nice, very quickly realized, wow, this is not my forever home.

3:38 [SPEAKER_01]: This is just where I gain some experience. [SPEAKER_01]: and then I'll start re-applying to other places that are a little bit more ethical that are more in line with my core values. [SPEAKER_01]: So I like to tell people like I learned everything not to do. [SPEAKER_01]: First, by working in that practice that I was in, I obviously provided safe care to my patients, but the people around me were not necessarily doing that. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't tell you how many times we actually had light-a-kin toxicity. [SPEAKER_01]: Happened, we're 911, it was cool. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was really eye-opening that, like, this really is a true medical specialty, and it has to be treated like that.

4:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So I worked there for a little under a year before I finally couldn't take it anymore, and I had applied other places, got another job, and was already ready to move on, but it took a while. [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: about $20,000. [SPEAKER_01]: Again, loans. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, I can't go back to the hospital. [SPEAKER_01]: I had been in the Supervisory role and I was like, I just can't do it anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm looking at it, I'm like, I'm going to have to do. [SPEAKER_01]: I have to have a job. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I have to get some ROI here. [SPEAKER_01]: So I continue to take training courses and each one of them.

5:01 [SPEAKER_01]: really under-delivered. [SPEAKER_01]: It was underwhelming every single time. [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a lot of self-teaching, a lot of researching anatomy, reading studies, following people who I presumed were ethical on social media and learning from their free education that they're providing. [SPEAKER_01]: And that's actually how I learned, how to be a competent injector, not for many of those courses that I have. [SPEAKER_01]: So you would say that [SPEAKER_02]: you did not become a fully competent injector after one class. [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, no, I don't know if that's the truth. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, Katie, tell me about your journey. [SPEAKER_02]: Where did you start? [SPEAKER_02]: And where were you before you were an injector? [SPEAKER_03]: I went to nursing school a little bit later in life before I worked for an optometrist.

5:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I did all kinds of stuff there, back office stuff, and I, that interested me in getting into the medical field further, so I went to nursing school and then I graduated and [SPEAKER_03]: In nursing school I was like I remember doing my first rotation in the ER and I was like I've made a terrible mistake. [SPEAKER_03]: I cannot I don't know I don't want to be a nurse and so I made it through school and I ended up getting hired by a plastic surgeon right out of nursing school which is [SPEAKER_03]: rare. [SPEAKER_03]: And so I really, he wanted somebody that didn't have any bad habits yet.

6:32 [SPEAKER_03]: He wanted to mold me and teach me the way that he wanted things. [SPEAKER_03]: And so I didn't know any different. [SPEAKER_03]: And I, [SPEAKER_03]: Took it and I mean, I learned a ton from he was a facial plastic surgeon double-board certified Oda-Lanagology, and so I mean, I was learning from somebody really good But I feel like it kind of trapped me a little bit like I wish that I would have had Experience in getting different injectors that were also RNs or I could relate to a little bit more than a plastic surgeon, right? [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but I had a really solid foundation, um, you know, he taught me everything.

7:16 [SPEAKER_03]: He taught me everything and, um, you know, I got, I ended up being pretty good at it. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_03]: And, um, I built an insane clientele, um, through his practice. [SPEAKER_03]: And so, um, I got a little bit burnt out and then I started training within mode, but I still maintained my clientele and then I eventually opened my own [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I, um, I honest, I mean, I'll try to make my story a little bit brief, but I actually, my goal was to be an orthopedic nurse practitioner and that was all I was going to do and that was just the end, end all be all, um, before I was a nurse, I was an athletic trainer and then, um, I became a orthopedic trauma nurse and then I got my nurse practitioner and then I was an orthopedic nurse practitioner and I just felt like I was really in my [SPEAKER_02]: I think about three years after being an NPs, so it was probably what I probably like eight years into doing orthopedics.

8:19 [SPEAKER_02]: There's one day that I just went, if I have to explain the treatment options for Nearthritis one more time. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna lose my mind. [SPEAKER_02]: It just became, it wasn't stimulating to me at all. [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: It was the same thing over and over again. [SPEAKER_02]: So I actually switched to internal medicine as an NP. [SPEAKER_02]: and loved it. [SPEAKER_02]: But the burnout was pretty high. [SPEAKER_02]: I spent more time trying to formulate notes that was going to make the insurance company happy or Medicare happy. [SPEAKER_02]: Then I did with actually treating a patients. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I had a friend of mine that was actually was a drug rap, and he got a job with Gal Derma, and he said, you should do aesthetics.

8:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, [SPEAKER_02]: That's funny, I'm not, I hadn't even had a facial at this point, like I had never had anything, I just thought that that was ridiculous. [SPEAKER_02]: It was not something that I considered in my wheelhouse nor something I was even really interested in at the time, but it was very persistent. [SPEAKER_02]: And he kept saying, I will just get you all the training. [SPEAKER_02]: So I did, I also went to a course. [SPEAKER_02]: So if I finally convinced me to do it, I was just going to do it on the side and do it for my friends and my family and maybe some neighbors and maybe make a little money out of, I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: So I went to a course down in Arizona and I paid not quite 8,000, but it was 5,000. [SPEAKER_02]: And it was supposed to be injectables so both neurotoxins and fillers.

9:44 [SPEAKER_02]: And we had one day of neurotoxin and we had the same situation where there were probably six of us in a room and we had one face to share. [SPEAKER_02]: And I got 10 checked, look LaBella, and half of a forehead. [SPEAKER_02]: I've actually think we had two people to inject. [SPEAKER_02]: So I had a little more real estate to deal with. [SPEAKER_02]: And then for the filler portion, which they had really sold it to me, I mean, how it was presented was that I was going to get this hands on her, I assumed I don't know if it shouldn't read it right, but during during the training, they said, we're just going to talk about it, we're not going to actually inject anyone. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I didn't actually get, so I just listened to a lecture about it, and so that was pretty disappointing.

10:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, [SPEAKER_02]: It was just like, I was just grabbing any training that I could. [SPEAKER_02]: I would take all the training that Galdermo would give me, which I did get a lot of training for Galdermo, the different trainers, which was huge to like see different techniques. [SPEAKER_02]: And I just kept piling that up and kept going to trainings. [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I just found some of the trainings a little disappointing, just mainly because of the ratio. [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like, [SPEAKER_02]: their training or their focus was to make a lot of money, which we all need to make some money when we're doing something, but and not to deliver a really useful product for people that want to be injectors.

11:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And so anyway, obviously here we are. [SPEAKER_02]: I dove into full into aesthetics and here we are and it definitely worked out for me and I love it. [SPEAKER_02]: So, [SPEAKER_02]: What is something that worked really well for you getting into aesthetics and what is something that maybe you would have done differently? [SPEAKER_01]: If I could go back and do one thing differently, I would not try to be an expert in everything all at once. [SPEAKER_01]: When I first started, the practice that I joined, I was expected to know skincare injectables, lasers, energy-based devices, and [SPEAKER_01]: that each one of those, it's its own rabbit hole.

11:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you really want to be next to it, it takes like extensive study and extensive experience, hands on. [SPEAKER_01]: So trying to dabble in it all, you're really an expert at none, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_01]: So that would be what I would do differently. [SPEAKER_01]: What went well for me is coming from labor and delivery, you are [SPEAKER_01]: You're really bonded with that patient, you're in their room literally every three to five minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: You're educating them throughout the whole process and so I would develop a really strong rapport with the patients and just because I don't like to not be good at things. [SPEAKER_01]: I was pretty intentional about my follow-ups with those patients. [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone had to have a follow-up and I wrote handwritten, [SPEAKER_01]: Thanking them for choosing me asking if they would refer someone to me letting them know I'm available if they had any questions and I Do think that's why I was able to gain.

12:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I had about 400 patients at the end of that first year as a novice provider. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I think that's what did wall for me. [SPEAKER_02]: Good. [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome. [SPEAKER_02]: What about you, Katie? [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I mean, I, I wish that I would have invested some more money into my education earlier on. [SPEAKER_03]: I, over the years I had started to do that and I still do that. [SPEAKER_03]: But I kind of wish that I would have dove in a little bit deeper on some of those things with other people than this one. [SPEAKER_03]: person you know right so I wish that I would have done that kind of similar to you I mean I hustled like I I was at a practice that didn't group on and so it's crazy I like I still see some of those people so I was able to convert those people from a 99 dollar laser hair removal to a 10-year patient of mine and so [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, I think I think just like having that kind of personality and really nurturing those relationships just like what Jessica said is something you have to do on this industry.

14:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: I, when I got into, I think what, with aesthetics, I honestly, when I started an aesthetics, I had no idea it actually is a pretty lucrative business to be in. [SPEAKER_02]: And this is why so many people want to be in it because it is kind of glamorous or it can be certain aspects of it at least. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, and it is, it is lucrative. [SPEAKER_02]: You can make great money at it. [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, I didn't realize that. [SPEAKER_02]: And I actually am grateful that I didn't because I really got into it for the right reasons. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I was chasing the result for my patients and for them to be. [SPEAKER_02]: feel better about themselves. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what that was my high out of it.

14:44 [SPEAKER_02]: There that was my gratification was watching people just feel better, like what they're seeing in the mirror. [SPEAKER_02]: I was also doing hormone replacement therapy and weight loss and watching people just feel better in their own skin. [SPEAKER_02]: And now working with so many different practices around the nation, I've found that [SPEAKER_02]: There are definitely practices, kind of like I talked about with the academies that they're either revenue-driven or results-driven. [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're results in safety, I should add that part in. [SPEAKER_02]: If you're results in safety-driven, you the revenue comes. [SPEAKER_02]: Later, it comes. [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to really beg for it or ask for it. [SPEAKER_02]: But if you are solely focused on making revenue and structure everything around that, you will fail and you'll have problems.

15:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And ultimately, there's just not a long [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of, and I don't know that that was an effort on my part, it was just very genuine. [SPEAKER_02]: What I would do differently is I would stop trying to be an expert in everything and not necessarily techniques. [SPEAKER_02]: I was at the same time that I was learning to be an injector, I was also building a business. [SPEAKER_02]: And I tried to learn how to do social media, and I tried to do my own accounting, and I tried to do, and I do understand at the beginning when you're starting a business, and you don't really have a lot of resources. [SPEAKER_02]: You just try to do everything yourself. [SPEAKER_02]: I just learned that there's a reason people are professionals in different areas. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think I would have leaned into that early, spend a little bit more of my investment in those experts, and even just my own learning.

16:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that that would have been a better route to go. [SPEAKER_02]: I think we've kind of talked about a little bit with something I wanted to chat about was just the ratio of injecting something we see a lot of as as injectors and going to courses and stuff like that is the [SPEAKER_02]: you can, we can talk about injecting. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you can read about swimming, but you don't actually learn how to swim unless you swim. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right, and let's see it into the water. [SPEAKER_02]: And so with injecting, we, you have to get your hands on it. [SPEAKER_02]: And so those training courses are, it's like the biggest thing that they're lacking is that hands-on experience. [SPEAKER_02]: And there's only so much you can offer, right?

16:56 [SPEAKER_02]: What I'd love to offer is like preceptor ships and travel. [SPEAKER_02]: to figure out I'd like to eventually kind of get to that place. [SPEAKER_02]: The ratio, what would you say is probably a better like for somebody who's going out they're looking for training, what would be a good ratio? [SPEAKER_02]: Or first of all, they should be looking, hey, does the training list what kind of ratio it is? [SPEAKER_02]: As far as an instructor to student, but also student to model. [SPEAKER_02]: What would you think would be optimal for someone to look for?

17:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I like. [SPEAKER_01]: So I like training no more than four students at a time. [SPEAKER_01]: I think you get more than four as an instructor. [SPEAKER_01]: It can be really challenging because inevitably you're going to have somebody who is just grabbing the content like a sponge absorbing it. [SPEAKER_01]: And then you have somebody else who struggles a little bit more. [SPEAKER_01]: And so the second you get two or three that are struggling more, all the sudden your entire focus is on them and the other trainees are kind of suffering for that. [SPEAKER_01]: So four would be my personal max. [SPEAKER_01]: And then as far as hands-on patients, like I think, I think you need to have at least four models on talks to really grasp.

18:24 [SPEAKER_01]: like what you're doing. [SPEAKER_01]: Correct. [SPEAKER_01]: And then four times to apply that skill. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's okay to be observing, as long as you're actively observing, but you still need to put your hands on it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like each person should have at least one, like if you're going to a hands-on course where there's multiple people there, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I would say it needs to be, you need to at least have one face to yourself. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, by yourself. [SPEAKER_02]: By me, start to finish. [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's so important to be able to do the whole process. [SPEAKER_03]: from the very beginning. [SPEAKER_03]: Take their photos, make sure their paperwork is correct, do their assessment, our question now. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, like, I think it's so important to have your own patient, not a share of patient where it's all these things happening at once.

19:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you don't really remember like, oh, so-and-so injected this way, you remember what you did, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: And you remember that, you remember the process of you thinking through it? [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Rather than, when you, if you're watching somebody else do it, then you got him in front of your, like, weight. [SPEAKER_02]: What did they do? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: And like, how do you do it to completion? [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you want to map out your whole treatment plan. [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's something too that has helped me is like being able to do these really good assessments and make the patient build that rapport with them and then they keep coming to you and you're giving them a map for what they should do, you know, great definitely. [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like having that one on one with a patient is so important.

19:53 [SPEAKER_02]: When I felt like I had a grip on like how to treat the globella in the forehead and the crow's feet, like the the main areas of the face, I invited all of my neighbors and for like mostly my neighbors and I probably had 10 people there. [SPEAKER_02]: And I offered them all like $2 a unit, like what I was spending cost cost to just be a model for me. [SPEAKER_02]: So I took before and after I did this in my house and I had them laid down on my couch. [SPEAKER_02]: I remember and I remember they're being dark hair on my couch and being embarrassed. [SPEAKER_02]: Like because they're at a lab that was blonde and I had a dark couch anyway. [SPEAKER_02]: By the end of that, 10 people, I was like, I understand this.

20:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then I was able to see those people back and fall up, and then I was able to assess, like, oh, this person's got a little bit of a spoky. [SPEAKER_02]: This one's a little bit heavy. [SPEAKER_02]: This one's moving a little bit more on the right side of their face. [SPEAKER_02]: And then when I, the first injector I ever hired was, she had done the, of course, right, injected a quarter of a forehead or whatever. [SPEAKER_02]: And I did the same thing with her. [SPEAKER_02]: We did a party and they got 50% off their treatment and we got 10 people lined up and it was about the fourth person. [SPEAKER_02]: that I could see it click in her brain and she was like, I've got this. [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's what I would encourage anybody to do is to go to a really good quality course that's going to give you a full hands-on experience and then a no more than one instructor to four students ratio and then immediately after that.

21:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Like actually you should have these patients scheduled out on a day later. [SPEAKER_02]: Like the day after you do this training. [SPEAKER_02]: 10 people lined up that would be willing to do it, family, friends, neighbors, whatever, and I think that I've watched it happen several times, where it's just kind of quite narrow to oxen and specifically. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: So, what's the value of a certificate? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is fun. [SPEAKER_01]: I did a regular Tory compliance and policy and procedure in the hospital. [SPEAKER_01]: So, this makes me laugh. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's a beautiful piece of paper. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a beautiful thing to display on your wall to show that you did your due diligence.

22:17 [SPEAKER_01]: to get some training. [SPEAKER_01]: But in less you turn it into some form of a competency certification where you're providing provider medical director is signing off at saying that they certify that you are competent to perform the treatment. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a piece of paper, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I looked into, says we're building our own academy. [SPEAKER_02]: OK, people are asking for certificates. [SPEAKER_02]: It's really important to them to have a certificate. [SPEAKER_02]: And some, [SPEAKER_02]: insurance companies. [SPEAKER_02]: They want a certificate, right? [SPEAKER_02]: And so then I looked, I'm like, okay, what is it take to create a certificate or what do I, what qualifications do I have? [SPEAKER_02]: So there's obviously those, the CMEs or the CEUs, that's a whole process.

23:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a, it's a little bit expensive and it's rigorous, but you can use it for your, you know, re-certification of your license. [SPEAKER_02]: And then there's this other category, we're here with just a certificate like a certificate you could make on camera. [SPEAKER_02]: And so if it doesn't have CUs, it's really just something anybody can produce. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we all train for in mode and in mode does that as well. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're able to say, I certify this person, it's just a piece of paper that they made. [SPEAKER_02]: So even though it is like you said, [SPEAKER_02]: It's great to have them, and it does show some credibility in that you've put in the effort in the time and the finances to get certified, but it's something, but all these certificates can carry very different value and there's really no way to evaluate which one is.

23:47 [SPEAKER_02]: worth anything. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, don't you see all the time the advertisement is leaning so heavily on get certified. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, get certified. [SPEAKER_01]: We certify injectors and people, oh, I have to go to that one because they will certify me. [SPEAKER_01]: Correct. [SPEAKER_02]: And then they can take that certification and they can go to their job interview and be, look, I'm certified. [SPEAKER_02]: And as, you know, an employer myself, I'll be like, [SPEAKER_02]: That really doesn't mean better to me. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll certify you because I'd like to know you like it. [SPEAKER_02]: Really doesn't mean much to me. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for that. [SPEAKER_02]: But, um, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: So, what about, um, let's talk a little bit about where you think the meds file market is now today as a compared to before.

24:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, [SPEAKER_02]: So particularly, I feel like there's more medspos than there's ever been. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: And they're hiring, right? [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're training. [SPEAKER_02]: But so that takes like, you know, some a piece of the pie, but I feel like the general public is more accepting of medspos services nowadays. [SPEAKER_02]: Have you found that? [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think [SPEAKER_03]: Um, just being, there are, especially where I live. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there is literally a medspawn every corner. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, just in the radius of where mine is.

25:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's probably 20, I mean, it's, it's crazy. [SPEAKER_03]: The density there, um, however, I think that people are doing their research a lot more than ever, social media, Instagram, you know, they're looking at their injectors. [SPEAKER_03]: That's how they're finding people. [SPEAKER_03]: And so I think that they're watching, like, they're looking at what you're doing, they're looking at where you've gone to classes, they're looking at how much you're doing. [SPEAKER_03]: And so I don't think that people are necessarily looking to go to a plastic surgeon's office rather than a medspond anymore, because the information is so easily available to anybody for us.

25:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I don't know. [SPEAKER_03]: I think people... [SPEAKER_03]: are researching a lot more. [SPEAKER_03]: And so if there's an injector that they want to see at that as an immense fall, they're going to go. [SPEAKER_03]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: And what I appreciate now is that like getting Botoxies to be kind of taboo. [SPEAKER_02]: And if you got Botoxies and tell anyone and you right now, [SPEAKER_02]: people are like, I remember there's one gal that was I had invited her to come to like a discord party or Botox party that I was doing years ago and she was very cautious and she went and with how many people there's lots of people there and she went, you know, I thought this was really odd to get into and now I realize that I'm the odd one.

26:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, doing it. [SPEAKER_02]: She's like I had no idea that all these people that I know [SPEAKER_02]: I'll do this, and so now it's definitely to our benefit that it's being more accepted. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we've also leaned out of that kind of more frozen fake, overfilled look, and more into a natural appearance, or a natural enhancement of their own beauty, if that makes sense. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so, um, [SPEAKER_02]: Also, talk a little bit about there's different types of trainings, right? [SPEAKER_02]: So when you are a new injector, you're going to look for a training that is presenting something that is for a novice trainer.

27:20 [SPEAKER_02]: And then obviously, if you're a very moved past being a novice trainer, you would look for advanced training. [SPEAKER_02]: What is some advanced training that you've completed or looked for or even would go to now? [SPEAKER_01]: I love cadaver courses every time I go to one, I learn something new, the anatomy is always different. [SPEAKER_01]: So it gives you a really healthy respect for it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a humbling experience, too, which sometimes we need, especially after we've been doing it for a while. [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy complications, like the CMAC complication management courses and things like that.

28:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think as long as you can differentiate between the sponsored education courses and those that are really put on so those that offer CES and some capacity at least at a percentage. [SPEAKER_01]: of the talk, you'll get value out of it, but there's nothing more disappointing than showing up to one and realizing that every single lecture is sponsored by Jupiter, yeah, Russell and Alergand, Goderma, something like that, because you know that there's a there's an undertone of sales there and they're not freaking you on a completely unbiased front, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's still some value to it, especially if you're going to be using, if you are using their product, but I agree that some of the opinion about their product might be a little biased and not a fair presentation of doing that.

28:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Would you say that so the one thing that I was really surprised about you know like when we look at an out of me books They're all colorful nicely, you know like that is nice. [SPEAKER_02]: It's nice beautiful yellow And the arteries are red and the veins are blue and the skin is peachy pink and you know It's all colored very nicely and it's very easy to differentiate that I think that was the thing that surprised me the most is when I did a camera lab I was like oh [SPEAKER_01]: This all looks the same color. [SPEAKER_02]: I got a huge deal of difference between this layer and that layer. [SPEAKER_02]: And I definitely, you know, they proposed that a cadaver lab was something was meant for an inexperienced injector. [SPEAKER_02]: And somebody said an interesting questions or a friend of mine who's not an injector and would never touch a needle or she'd pass out.

29:44 [SPEAKER_02]: But I was telling her about it. [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, do you mean there's actually injectors out there who haven't been to a cadaver lab? [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, well, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, a cadaver lab's for an advanced injector. [SPEAKER_02]: So now I'm kind of wondering. [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think? [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, for me, I don't know that I would have, I think I would have been overwhelmed and have the information if I did a cadaver lab before I started injecting with filler. [SPEAKER_02]: But what do you think? [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I can kind of see both sides of it. [SPEAKER_03]: Right, um, at one on one side, it's like having that foundation of knowing, I mean, you have to know what you're, you have to know you're in that, I mean, to do this. [SPEAKER_03]: Right, safely. [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so I think it, I think it could benefit both sides.

30:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think I don't think it's too overwhelming now that I'm in this. [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's extremely beneficial and, um, admirable for a new [SPEAKER_03]: But I also think like Jessica said like I could go to one tomorrow and I would learn a ton of things. [SPEAKER_03]: I probably don't know yet. [SPEAKER_03]: Right. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: Like there's it doesn't matter what stage you're in as an injector. [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's always something to learn. [SPEAKER_01]: When it probably depends on like what you're initial training was like and what degree of respect you have for the anatomy? [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Because I can tell you after my training course. [SPEAKER_01]: I really didn't think it mattered that much.

31:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I was given some cookie cutter injection points that we're supposed to work for everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: So to me, I kind of had that same mentality that I think a lot of these DIY talks and filler people have is, oh, you just market like this and you injected how hard could it be. [SPEAKER_01]: How many times have you trained somebody and they they're like, it's not that hard. [SPEAKER_01]: It can't be that hard. [SPEAKER_01]: Don't insult my muscles. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, good, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so what respect did you have for the anatomy? [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you didn't, if you don't even know the names of the muscles, you go into a cadaver lab. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you're going to drown. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: I initially went, so we're making this academy and my plan is to have a cadaver course as well.

31:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Initially, I was thinking that was going to be an advanced course, but to be honest with you, after speaking to you guys right now, I'm thinking how value would it really isn't how you present it. [SPEAKER_02]: So when I went to cadaver course, it was presented as a [SPEAKER_02]: trained experience and that was the message. [SPEAKER_02]: These are experienced injectors that come here. [SPEAKER_02]: You already know this XYZ. [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas I think if you presented it in a way that was to novice injectors to really start with the foundation of the anatomy and grow from there, they would not only be better injectors over all but like much safer injectors. [SPEAKER_02]: to, I mean, in my anatomy, could ever anatomy one girl injected the nose, and she got an occlusion, like on the nose, and she actually got to watch it happen in real time, you know, like injecting and then pulled the skin back and was like, oh, shit, I would have gotten occlusion for that, you know, in the opposite of a cadaver, you can play around with that type of stuff, but yeah.

32:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that will resonate with her for the rest of all time, which I don't know if this is okay, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: Or the forehead with any filler. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so and then the other one that I'm really interested in talking about or offering is ultrasound. [SPEAKER_02]: It's becoming a lot more, I see there are a lot more spas just making it a staple in their office. [SPEAKER_02]: for safety. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can't really revenue a lot off of it, which is okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes just having another element of keeping things safe for being able to assess for a vascular inclusion or something like that is just an extra just sets you apart as a practice. [SPEAKER_02]: And that is something I plan to incorporate in these academies is some element of ultrasound or at least an introduction to it.

33:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it's becoming more and more common to see older sound because the devices are getting smaller, more affordable, more portable, more portable, other things. [SPEAKER_02]: And they connect to your phones, right? [SPEAKER_02]: So you're going to connect to an iPad or a phone and you can like, in the one that I'm looking at in particular has, [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it changes the colors for you. [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. [SPEAKER_02]: So like, so rather than being just a bunch of gray and black, right? [SPEAKER_02]: It's actually like, it will actually change the muscle you read. [SPEAKER_02]: The fat will be yellow. [SPEAKER_02]: Like it, it's smart in that way. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, that's dangerous, but I love it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like, you may say that makes it easier.

34:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it took me, being in the orthopedic world to read X-rays and MRI is like, I can read a MRI love, like, easy for, like, a name, minuschistare or shoulder rotator care of care. [SPEAKER_02]: But it took me a long time to learn that, because it's all just gray and black and that's all it is. [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to assess the different shades. [SPEAKER_02]: So ultrasound is the same way. [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so moving on, [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to try a little bit about what I plan to offer or what we plan to offer in the academy to set us apart from another one and what and you guys can kind of give me some insight of what you'd like to see. [SPEAKER_02]: One thing that you could touch Dawn was kind of comprehensive treatment planning. [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's important, obviously, if you're going to an neurotoxin training or a filler training that you not just stay too narrowly focused on those things, but you also talk about other treatment options for that patient.

35:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's not always going to be a one-size-fits-all. [SPEAKER_03]: I don't, I want to be versed in all of the things that I could do for my patient, not just try to fix everything with some Botox. [SPEAKER_02]: Right, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: So, and I think that's, there's a lot of value with that for people that are coming to learn. [SPEAKER_02]: Is that, hey, I'm going to this training. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to learn how to do Botox for the first time, but guess what? [SPEAKER_02]: these professionals are also going to talk about how do we incorporate, how do we talk to this patient about micro-needling, how do we talk to this patient about their skincare routine, how do we talk to them about maybe an IPL to change their pigment or that over time we're going to need some sculpture to build collagen and so our assessments of the models that will have in the academy will be very comprehensive and the people that are attending the training will be able to kind of walk through that process and learn.

36:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Something else I really love is, and this is something that we've experienced today because we're doing a lot of content today, is that we are three professional injectors, aesthetic providers, but we all have a little bit of a different perspective on things. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's highly valuable. [SPEAKER_02]: There are sometimes that, sorry, I'm going to serve her. [SPEAKER_00]: Very lost, I'm sure you have that. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm trying to think of an example. [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a person. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be getting what you say.

36:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Please allow a content today. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and like, we all have different opinions. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Something that I really enjoyed today is we are filming some content for the Academy and the website videos that we're going to have is that we have slightly different perspectives on our technique or how we address something or how we are treating planary even our aftercare. [SPEAKER_02]: And none of them were [SPEAKER_02]: wrong. [SPEAKER_02]: They were just all slightly different. [SPEAKER_02]: And I actually, actually, so when I was watching both of your cases videos, when we were doing the first round of edits, I learned so much. [SPEAKER_02]: And it was really, really fun for me to like, oh, I didn't know.

37:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, I never thought of it that way, or just the way that you explain something like when you're talking about lips. [SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to raise a next to a great meaning you don't want to. [SPEAKER_02]: fill one part of the lip, but ignore the other part. [SPEAKER_02]: You want to make sure it's maybe might not put as much filler in that part of the lip, but you still want to put something there to make it smooth out. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I think having the perspective of multiple providers is something that's really valuable in something like an academy. [SPEAKER_01]: I agree, don't we always say like there's more than one way to skin a cat? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if that's a real thing. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if there's one other way. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's gonna get it. [SPEAKER_01]: But it sounds so mean. [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, it holds true in aesthetics.

38:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's more than one approach to fill the midface. [SPEAKER_02]: because she has a different experience and she's had really great success with another rustling product. [SPEAKER_02]: You like L. Resty L. A lot of people do, you know what, and that's something that I learned. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't use a lot of Resty L in the lips, but now I'm, yeah, I need it, but you know, when you've gotten really good at it.

38:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So I love, I love, I don't know, I [SPEAKER_02]: kiss, define and contour, use all of those in the lip sometimes refined, but I haven't done Rusty else and I need to do more of that. [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, the point is, I've loved having the perspectives of different injectors and learning from that, and I hope some people will like to learn from some things for me as well. [SPEAKER_02]: At the course. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see. [SPEAKER_02]: The, okay, here's a good subject. [SPEAKER_02]: What about complication management? [SPEAKER_02]: So can you think of your first complication and did you feel prepared for it? [SPEAKER_02]: No, I didn't feel prepared for it.

39:29 [SPEAKER_01]: My first one was supremely heavy brows with talks. [SPEAKER_01]: I learned the five point pattern with the glabella injections about a centimeter above. [SPEAKER_01]: So what was I really injecting the lower part of the front-to-top racists? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so my patient came in looking [SPEAKER_01]: And she was really unhappy, really unhappy. [SPEAKER_01]: I think she cursed at me and I was trying not to cry, trying to maintain my composure, reassure her that it would wear off and she was wanting me to do something to fix it. [SPEAKER_01]: And this was 10 years ago, and there wasn't really anything to do to fix it.

40:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So that was super discouraging. [SPEAKER_01]: And we didn't even talk about that in my training. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Like the possibility of that. [SPEAKER_01]: Conplications weren't necessary. [SPEAKER_01]: I think we talked about like the risk of lid-tosis, but they didn't tell us how we would cause that, didn't go over the wall. [SPEAKER_01]: That was a no idea. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't get that either. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Actually just wild. [SPEAKER_02]: I was taught, and I remember who it was. [SPEAKER_02]: I talked to somebody else and they said I was taught that because I felt dumb because I was like I just like totally messed that up about being superficial over the tail of the coordinator. [SPEAKER_02]: I was taught to go straight down deep. [SPEAKER_02]: Me too. [SPEAKER_02]: So okay, so you weren't too? [SPEAKER_03]: I only thought up like not that low. [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like I mean, I wasn't taught that either, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I feel I feel even better.

40:51 [SPEAKER_02]: But I would just go straight down on the tail of the coordinator and then I [SPEAKER_02]: drop somebody's eye, um, got up at Patoces, and of course she was an esthetician from another spa that was sending me tons of referrals and, um, I felt horrible and she would text me in the middle of the night sometimes because she'd wake up and her arm would be, or her eye would be extra. [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, it was, Ms. Role, I had no idea how to manage that. [SPEAKER_01]: She was emotionally distressing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, here is distressing the patient. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that's another element of a good training would be to actually have some complication management solutions. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, at least be aware of them and understand kind of how to and have that content into like something they could take home with them in the event that happens.

41:38 [SPEAKER_02]: They can flip back to it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this is still a medication. [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we need to be able to [SPEAKER_03]: address anything that comes up. [SPEAKER_03]: And so the more prepared you are for something to go wrong, the better it's going to be for both you and relationships. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_02]: And you won't sweat quite as much if you like. [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I know how to, I know how to hand this. [SPEAKER_03]: This isn't great, but we can do it. [SPEAKER_03]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: And in complications will happen. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely. [SPEAKER_02]: It will happen. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's going to happen. [SPEAKER_03]: And it's going to happen if you don't do enough. [SPEAKER_03]: If you don't do enough, that's good. [SPEAKER_03]: At least some time. [SPEAKER_02]: Right, and or you're just not recognizing when you're having complications or your things are not quite even or browser walking, but so I think that's pretty valuable. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so, um, what else here.

42:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just want to read about to guys have anything else. [SPEAKER_01]: That's spot now. [SPEAKER_02]: Anything else you want to, because I mean, I have a couple of things here, but I think I just want to kind of kind of a last point. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have anything about, like, like collaborative community, like a community of people that they can reach out to because it is [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like this support after I have to be like a little bit you're just set free nothing. [SPEAKER_03]: We want to have we want to be your mentor and resource to you.

43:09 [SPEAKER_02]: So one more thing I'd like to kind of bring up about the Academy that's really going to set us apart, and I'm really, really excited about this portion, because, okay, let's say you go through a training, you leave and go back, and maybe you have your little book I like I talked about. [SPEAKER_02]: It's got, you know, all your notes and stuff like that, but if something does come up, or even, it doesn't necessarily need to be a complication, maybe just a complicated case, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Or you can't remember certain things, is having [SPEAKER_02]: mentor. [SPEAKER_02]: Now for me specifically, back when I was by myself, I didn't have anybody to ask. [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have, I didn't get trained in the plastic surgery office, I didn't have other practitioners around me like I was just kind of figuring it out as I go and I would read things.

43:51 [SPEAKER_02]: But to have the value of having some sort of mentor or someone a resource that I could talk to, [SPEAKER_02]: And that is also something that we plan to offer with our live trainings as well as our online membership to our all of our injection videos is having access to us to help us help you navigate certain problems or cases and what we do with this patient as well as like you said like a community. [SPEAKER_02]: where maybe something kind of like a forum where people can put in questions and talk with each other. [SPEAKER_02]: Our goal is for everyone to be wildly successful with us.

44:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to create something that is tangible and useful and is not just a certificate, but it is like adds value to who they are as an injector and an aesthetic practitioner. [SPEAKER_02]: in general. [SPEAKER_02]: So memberships will include access to professionals in the work together like Jessica and Katie and myself to help you be successful. [SPEAKER_02]: So we are going to be hosting our first live novice injector training in February of next year. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll have one full day of neurotoxin training and then one full day of [SPEAKER_02]: Fillur training.

45:15 [SPEAKER_02]: We are going to have a very, so we're done looking for. [SPEAKER_02]: Hold on, let me start that part again. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have a very favorable ratio of instructor to our plan is to have one instructor to three students, only three at a time, and each person will have their own model to inject from top to bottom entirely so they can get all of that value and then additionally we'll have all those support afterwards. [SPEAKER_02]: So we're pretty excited about it and send us, how do I close that? [SPEAKER_02]: Like how am I going to tell people to get more information about it?

45:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Go to the website. [SPEAKER_00]: Because the website, you know, I'm talking about concerts, you know, I don't want information. [SPEAKER_00]: You can go to my website. [SPEAKER_00]: Because the website, you know, you can go to my website. [SPEAKER_00]: Because the website, you know, because the website, you know, because the website, you know, because the website, you know, because the website, you know, because the website, you know, because the website, you know, because the website, you know, because the website, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: So if you'd like to find out more information about the Academy or how you can get some more resources, such as a website membership as to being an ejector, you can find me at alumineconsultingatacademy.com or Kim Peters underscore alumine on Instagram. [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for joining us. [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you soon. [SPEAKER_00]: Can we do one where you like explain a little bit about the Academy and I'm going to clip it in.

46:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to clip it out on the black. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to end making it. [SPEAKER_00]: OK. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what would you want to say? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what you guys did today. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, the kind of just explaining the account and some of you that doesn't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, they talk about it, but not explaining it. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, what it is, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: So, so I just want to talk about what we did today. [SPEAKER_02]: Or kind of explaining the... [SPEAKER_00]: Explain, like, what you build like you can just car or in it, and then mention, like, every service that we kind of built. [SPEAKER_00]: So, like, this year to the scan page. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: It is quantum filler talks.

47:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So Alumina Academy is going to be offering a comprehensive menu of ways to train. [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have hands-on training. [SPEAKER_02]: They'll be one-on-one training where you can schedule a time to schedule a two train with one of us. [SPEAKER_02]: You could train with Jessica in Oklahoma City. [SPEAKER_02]: You could train with Katie and San Diego or myself in Kansas City. [SPEAKER_02]: We are also going to have a give you access to website membership, which has a comprehensive list of videos on injections, as well as things like CO2 laser, Morpheus 8, IPL, Skin Pen, PRF, Radius, and Sculptra.

48:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Today, actually, we just finished up a day, a whole day of filming, which is what our third day of filming, filming all of our injection videos, so where we take you through from start to finish. [SPEAKER_02]: The assessment of the patient, what products we're going to use, how we use them, how we inject them, and the postcare. [SPEAKER_02]: Is there anything that I'm missing? [SPEAKER_01]: I think so. [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're good. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: We did dissolving. [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's dissolving too. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So dissolving lips when urges on filler. [SPEAKER_02]: When it's safe, when it's somehow made it into a place we don't want it. [SPEAKER_02]: And we're also going to on the website we'll review complication management, comprehensive treatment planning, and of course, post-care.

48:47 [SPEAKER_02]: There's also a large supply of digital downloads, such as patient consent, treatment protocols, patient care instructions. [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, it's pretty comprehensive. [SPEAKER_02]: We do have different levels of membership as well as in-person trainings.